Igor Golyak: Good query of what’s actual and what’s not actual, whether or not digital theatre is actual.
Tjaša Ferme: Sure. Properly, whether or not theatre is actual anyhow. It is such an effervescent medium. You are creating realities that aren’t actually there. I really feel like as an actor and as a director, that is why I can by no means really get up in my dream. That is why I can by no means have a lucid dream, as a result of what I do with my life is creating performs, is creating false realities and brainwashing myself that they are actual, that they are the realities. Whenever you dream, I am doing the identical factor. How do I differentiate one from the opposite?
Igor: Properly, particularly with digital theatre the place… No matter meaning, digital theatre, I do not know. Theatre is theatre. However anyway, with a digital medium, I believe I do know you are there, I believe I do know you exist, however I do not know. I am making an assumption. The thought of someone influencing your life, or really, I do not know, making you are feeling one thing and also you assume that they are actual in actual time proper now speaking to you, however on the identical time, performing one thing. After which the dialog is about performing. How are you aware in the event that they’re performing? You really do not know since you do not see a stage. You do not know if it is a efficiency or not.
Tjaša: Right, but additionally every thing that we understand is an inner expertise anyway. You might be speaking to me, however you might be considerably in my actuality, by means of my display screen. I see you and I hear you actually in my head. Nothing’s actually on the market. Every part is condensed and mixed into a picture subjectively within my very own head. We do not know the discrepancy between the actual world and the world that we understand in our heads.
Igor: Yeah. It is simply based mostly on expertise.
Tjaša: Welcome to Theatre Tech Talks: AI, Science, and Bio Media in Theatre, a podcast produced by HowlRound Theatre Commons, a free and open platform for theatremakers worldwide.
Igor Golyak is the founder and producing creative director of Arlekin Gamers Theater and Zero Gravity Digital Theater Lab in Boston. In the course of the pandemic, he conceived and directed Witness, chekhovOS /an experimental recreation/, and State vs. Natasha Banina. He acquired a 2022 particular quotation from the Boston Critics Affiliation for pushing the boundaries of digital house to create a brand new style of theatre.
I really feel such as you’re doing one thing that is actually technical and with a twelve-foot robotic arm, oh my god. That is virtually bombastic, however the expertise that I am getting as an viewers member is absolutely intimate. It is type of magical. It attracts me into an inside world. It would not really feel gimmicky or superficial in any respect. I need to praise you on reaching this, which appears inconceivable. And I understand how a lot work it requires to create worlds through which tech is so built-in that it would not really feel othered, proper?
Igor: Yeah.
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Tjaša: So how did you get right here? What occurred?
Igor: So what occurred was at the beginning, our theatre firm is predicated exterior of Boston in a small city known as Needham. Needham, Massachusetts. Now we have a studio with about fifty-seat theatre and we invited the director from Czech Republic. He got here right here and directed the play, and this was 2019, after which the pandemic hit. And so we needed to shut down the present. It ran just for every week or so. We needed to shut it down, after which we had to determine what to do. Simply so you understand, in Needham, Massachusetts we’re rated on TripAdvisor quantity two after a gasoline station. There is a gasoline station when it comes to issues to do in Needham, Massachusetts, after which there’s us. We’re trailing—
Tjaša: Congrats.
Igor: Thanks. It isn’t by far, however trailing the gasoline station.
Tjaša: However you are in entrance of a restaurant.
Igor: No, no. Eating places have their very own class. It is beneath a class, issues to do in Needham, Massachusetts. It is like, get gasoline and possibly see a present. We’re doing properly. Really, we’re—
Tjaša: Meaning you are a necessity. Think about that you just’re as mandatory and as important as gasoline.
Igor: You are so optimistic. You are so optimistic. Let me be bashful on myself a little bit bit. However it’s a very good story as a result of it begins with that after which it ends with two New York Instances critics’ picks. It is a good begin. As a director, begin from one thing, that Cinderella story.
Tjaša: From rags to riches.
Igor: There is no riches. However anyway, so pandemic hit, we needed to shut down the present, after which we had to determine what to do with our lives, the best way to pay for the studio that we’re renting and so forth. We had a present known as Natasha’s Dream. A few years earlier than that we went to festivals with abroad. It is a one girl present, and we determined, let’s work out a approach to play it to the viewers. We have been caught at residence, and this was my accomplice on the time, so we determined to place it as much as see what occurs if we experiment with it. I went on a hacking spree and researched a ton of, I do not know, several types of software program, put them in dialog with one another and discovered a approach to get this up, to get State vs. Natasha.
As quickly as we have been about to open, I understood that none of this works as a result of it is no completely different than a movie. Why would someone come and watch that present if they will do one thing on Netflix, if they will watch one thing on Netflix? And so I noticed that there needs to be an method that’s completely different, that comes with theatre, incorporates movie as a result of it is on a two-dimensional display screen, and in addition incorporates possibly some sort of gaming the place there’s some type of company in what you are doing.
In going into State vs. Natasha, similar to going into a brand new theatre house, bodily house, I ask myself, what’s the benefits and downsides of this house? And in attempting to reply that query with a digital house, there is a benefit, for instance, is that there is direct communication, everyone seems to be seated on the entrance row, anybody can watch it from anyplace, there’s a parallel narrative that may occur within the chat and folks can reply to issues instantly, and I can get that suggestions instantly as a director/an actor. In mild of all of these issues, two days earlier than the opening, we scrapped every thing and designed this interactive model and experimented with that, and folks responded. We went to worldwide festivals with it out of our lounge. We had folks from forty completely different international locations go to, together with Mikhail Baryshnikov and Jessica Hecht and different celebrities. Then New York Instances got here. So my little theatre in Needham would by no means have had these company as this digital piece, for the shortage of higher phrase.
Tjaša: That is unbelievable. I really like that you just’re telling me all concerning the little city, Massachusetts gasoline station, and swiftly the New York Instances overview. Yay. That is the way it works. I am curious, it appears like one thing was invented right here. The best way you labored with the house, the way in which you really had dwell animations over-posed a dwell stream of a dwell efficiency. How did that work? How did you make that occur?
Igor: It is simply layers of video. It is simply know-how that wasn’t used. I imply, it’s totally well-known know-how, simply it was by no means used for dwell efficiency or theatre efficiency as a result of there was no want. I do not really feel like I invented something. I used to be simply following what I used to be taught. You get into a brand new house, like in the event you’re directing one thing at a gasoline station, you are going to incorporate a gasoline station, otherwise you’re directing one thing at a practice. For me, any house, be it actual or fictional or digital or no matter it’s, is a site-specific house for a manufacturing. Any house is site-specific. Any theatre is at all times website particular as a result of it depends upon what the form of the theatre is, depends upon how you are going to impression the viewers. Is it the extra direct impression or is it an structure the place the vitality is contained, extra spherical structure and so forth? Once I design a present, I design for that particular house similar to I did with this digital house. So for me, it wasn’t something that I invented. It was simply what I used to be taught at theatre faculty.
Tjaša: Implausible. Nice lecturers. Did you say that you just really had a display screen that you just have been projecting on?
Igor: No, no. It was simply layers of video. It was simply layers of video that have been triggered. Mainly it was like 5 completely different items of software program and he or she did not see them. She noticed them on a monitor exterior, however it was like couple of layers on high of her video and that is the place the animations… That is the place they got here from.
Tjaša: Implausible. And you work this out, you set all of the softwares collectively?
Igor: Mm-hm. Yeah, it was me, my canine, the actor, actress, and my sister, as a result of we have been isolating. That was our pod, in order that was it. My sister ran the present as a result of I used to be pacing forwards and backwards. So she ran the present by clicking spacebar and the actor carried out and the canine was locked within the bed room.
Tjaša: However how did the canine contribute to the event and layering of the software program?
Igor: Very importantly, as a result of the factor is that the canine, when she sips, it’s totally, very loud. It was one thing we both needed to incorporate within the present and make it part of the present or not. So by having a destructive house of the canine, we got here to this manufacturing.
Tjaša: Detrimental house of the canine. Sure. Okay, I adore it. Let’s simply give the viewers a little bit little bit of context, what Natasha’s actually about. In State vs. Natasha Banina, a lady tells the story of her life in a small city orphanage. When she meets a journalist who takes an curiosity in protecting her hardships, she turns into infatuated with him, then obsessed till she’s pushed to commit against the law of ardour. On the finish, the viewers votes on her destiny, responsible or not responsible? Look, I’ll simply inform you my private expertise whereas watching Natasha Banina. I have not had this type of a profound expertise in dwell theatre. Actually by no means in any type of digital expertise. Like I stated, I dreamt about you the complete evening, though clearly I used to be watching the actress, not even you. However I assume there was virtually like a little bit encoded stamp of you coming by means of the display screen, which was… I do not know.
That is by no means occurred to me, however it was a really deep emotional expertise. And I discovered myself simply utterly enamored and simply interested by how human story and human questions are so necessary in theatre. Not likely the gimmicks that simply deliver them to us, proper?
Igor: Yeah.
Tjaša: And make it extra modern and attention-grabbing. However what you actually take away is the emotional expertise. With this woman, you simply end up routing for her a lot. You then ask your self, which can be a giant query, even in neuroscience, et cetera, are folks actually liable for what they do? What does it imply for his or her accountability? For instance they’ve a brief illness or a tumor that comes up. Then additionally, then again, society’s response to only locking folks away and never having a dialog and a strategy of integrating folks in society with any type of issues. So, I am your fan. You bought me in.
Igor: Thanks.
Tjaša: Thanks a lot.
Igor: For me, the opposite query that actually pursuits me as an immigrant, one thing that has type of stayed with me for some time, is folks coming from completely different worlds and completely different worlds colliding. Her actuality or her world, her universe within the universe that she exists in, is totally completely different from the universe that everybody else exists, like the traditional world exists in. It is tough to attempt someone, that has their very own way of life in their very own universe, in their very own world, by the requirements of our world and vice versa. So for an immigrant, I am positive you will have felt these conditions as properly, the place it is simply utterly completely different. And one thing that’s utterly unacceptable in our world and universe and tradition is totally acceptable right here and vice versa.
Tjaša: Completely.
Igor: What in the event you take that to the acute? And that is what occurs.
Tjaša: However that is without doubt one of the issues of globalization, that everyone’s one mildew of what is right and attempting to, amongst cultures and traditions, perpetuate it and decide different folks, and even impose judicial programs on completely different cultures by means of their very own lens.
Igor: Or simply decide, generally. On the road we decide folks, however then what do you do in the event you do not decide? You need to have some type of a safety layer. So it is a query and it is what I love to do, is attempt to determine these questions. I haven’t got a solution, sadly.
Tjaša: Inform us a little bit bit about your journey. Now, you are the hotshot director, subsequent present’s going to be at BAM, it is part of Below the Radar. However you really immigrated to the States whenever you have been 9 from Ukraine, and also you type of felt a little bit bit unseen by the mainstream media whenever you have been actually in search of an area to work within the States. You then created your individual group, you created Arlekin Gamers. Are you able to inform me a little bit bit about that?
Igor: I left at 9, I got here right here at ten and I used to be attempting to determine my life, went to high school right here and I did not actually slot in. These two worlds colliding that I used to be speaking about is one thing that these are the roots of the issue. Then I made a decision to go to high school in Russia. I utilized to high school there, I went to an appearing faculty, an appearing program on the Vakhtangov Theatre Institute. Then I went to get my directing diploma, which was a grasp’s diploma on the Russian Academy of Theatre Arts. Then I got here again right here, and in 2010, I created this studio, this theatre the place mainly I simply taught actors.
I taught people who needed to determine… Partly it was work out who they’re, however partly it was they needed to carry out. These weren’t skilled actors. They have been refugees which have come, largely in the identical wave of immigration as I’ve, from the previous Soviet Union to america which have discovered their lives when it comes to monetary stability, when it comes to job and life. However one thing was lacking, and what was lacking is, why are they right here? As soon as they received the monetary stability, why are they right here and what are we doing? What are we dwelling for? What is the goal? So that they got here to me and that is the place our dialog began, and I requested them for a nine-month dedication. And I stated, “Possibly on the finish of the nine-month dedication, we’ll have one thing born,” and we did. We had the theatre born.
Tjaša: Bravo. That is superior. Do you continue to work with them?
Igor: Yeah.
Tjaša: Or are they nonetheless nearly all of your actors and collaborators?
Igor: Completely.
Tjaša: Wonderful. Wonderful. Let’s discuss a little bit bit about The Orchard and the technicalities of it. Why is there a giant robotic arm on stage serving espresso, sweeping, and mainly zooming between completely different folks in numerous pictures?
Igor: I assumed that that is what Chekhov would’ve needed.
Tjaša: Inform me extra. Did you get that by means of a dream?
Igor: No, no, I did not. Why is there a robotic? Once more, Cherry Orchard had an extended journey. Not an extended, lengthy one, however there was a journey. After Natasha and Mikhail Baryshnikov, Micha reached out and we met and we have been interested by what to do. And in addition Jessica Hecht got here to see Natasha, and we spoke. After which we had an thought of, why do not we do a studying of The Cherry Orchard? As a result of it appeared like throughout the pandemic, there was a lack of company. Individuals felt like there was a lack of company. There was life, they usually knew what was taking place, they knew what was happening, they knew every thing that was arrange, after which every thing was taken away. It would not matter how wealthy you have been or how poor you have been, it is only a lack of company.
Now the world is completely different, and there is nothing that you might have accomplished to organize for it. It simply is. And so we determined to have a studying, and we did have the studying, and it sounded very a lot concerning the time of the pandemic. Then we determined, why do not we do a digital piece? So we filmed for six days. No, we filmed for 3 days and rehearsed for 3 days on the Baryshnikov Artwork Middle. And we made a digital piece known as chekhovOS, Chekhov Working System. That was the primary a part of this journey of The Cherry Orchard, which at that time was known as chekhovOS. That received a New York Instances Critics Choose. That was our second one. Then we determined, since we have accomplished that already, let’s do a full manufacturing. Let’s have a hybrid manufacturing, an in-person and digital manufacturing with completely different experiences of audiences experiencing one factor in actual life within the theatre, and digital viewers on the identical time having a distinct position to play.
So in interested by what might be on stage in The Cherry Orchard, my considering was once more concerning the pandemic, concerning the time that we have been in and the way fragile persons are generally. How fragile our life is, how fragile our wishes are, and that we virtually have little or no selection. It is a presumption of selection that we have now. We assume, we presume that we make choices, however within the grand scheme of issues, it is laid out, or not laid out, however even worse, random. Randomness is way worse than any type of order as a result of it signifies that nothing issues—
Tjaša: That you haven’t any management.
Igor: Yeah, there isn’t any management, there isn’t any construction to something, and there isn’t any approach to make any conclusions of something as a result of it is simply randomness. And other people dwell on this randomness. And against that could be a robotic that lives in a really particular construction, that lives by a program. What was attention-grabbing for me in The Cherry Orchard is the examine of this randomness of existence and randomness of existence within the people by one thing that is very structured. That is why he is them. It is like a toy, as a result of the play begins in a nursery. Begins virtually like a giant toy, but additionally it is a manner of people and their selections. Why cannot she promote the cherry orchard? Simply promote the cherry orchard. There’s some cause that she will’t, and this robotic is attempting to grasp.
Tjaša: Was there someone manipulating the motion of the robotic, the place the robotic seems?
Igor: These actions have been all pre-programmed. It was choreographed after which we used 3D animation software program to program what occurs with the pinnacle of the robotic, the place he seems, what he does, and so forth. So all of these actions, in fact, have been pre-programmed as a result of in any other case it has a, we known as it, circle of loss of life. As a result of it would not know that it will possibly hit someone and it would not know that it killed someone. It builds vehicles, it will possibly elevate tons and tons of weight, so it needed to be very, very well-structured and programmed in order that there is no such thing as a randomness.
Tjaša: Generally it will present the stage route of one thing that occurred on stage, and there was a little bit icon of the robotic subsequent to it. I virtually think about that the robotic is usually like a narrator.
Igor: Yeah, that is precisely it. Mainly, that projection was just like the terminal window. It is the interior evaluation of what is taking place for the robotic.
Tjaša: So for the digital expertise, there are six completely different digital rooms, and every time you go to, you may solely see three. Cool. Why did you resolve that your information is Chekhov himself, not one of many characters?
Igor: As a result of it is Chekhov’s world, Chekhov’s working system. That digital atmosphere that folks are available in and the rooms that they see are the rooms of the misplaced world, stunning rooms which might be misplaced. I do not know, I by no means requested myself that query, why him? As a result of the factor is that one character can be a standpoint, virtually. With the creator main by means of his worldview, it isn’t essentially my worldview, however it’s Chekhov’s worldview. This concept, he was scripting this play as he was dying, and once more, it is the identical thought of lack of company. Him being a health care provider, and on the identical time, dying from a illness feeling like there isn’t any approach to flip something round and dropping these worlds. This play is simply one of many worlds that’s being misplaced/bought, just like the cherry orchard. The viewers have been in a position to bid on the cherry orchard as people who got here into an public sale.
One of many issues that I considered after I was doing Natasha and chekhovOS was, what’s the position of the viewers? It is essential in a digital theatre or digital manufacturing like this to determine one thing energetic for them to do. In any other case, they’re simply passively watching a film. What’s their position? In Natasha, they’re taking part in judges, and truly they’ve all of the company as a result of they resolve what occurs to Natasha. And in Cherry Orchard and chekhovOS, they presume that they’ve company, however on the finish it seems that they do not.
Tjaša: Are they bidding with their precise cash or some imaginary foreign money?
Igor: So that is what we did, they have been bidding on an NFT of the Baryshnikov Artwork Middle, which was the home in The Cherry Orchard. The digital model of it was really a duplicate of the Baryshnikov Artwork Middle. So he was going by means of his personal middle as Chekhov. So yeah, some folks determined to pay cash for it, they usually did pay. It wasn’t quite a bit, it was like fifty bucks or one thing, however it was an precise minted NFT for that present, and that is what they received.
Tjaša: That is superior. I knew that the viewers was voting for Natasha, responsible or not responsible, however I assume I simply so powerfully felt that she was harmless. And after I noticed responsible, I used to be like, “Ah.” I simply felt like for a second I used to be like, “That is rigged. Within the precise play or within the precise actual life she was discovered responsible, however this isn’t the precise ballot from the precise viewers members—”
Igor: It was completely—
Tjaša: Are you telling me… who’re these folks?
Igor: It is a joke. So the entire exhibits we did in america, she was discovered responsible, and couple of the exhibits we did at Worldwide Festivals, she was discovered not responsible, however they have been exterior the US. Identical present.
Tjaša: What does know-how imply to you?
Igor: It is only a instrument to make it really feel extra acute, with know-how. One of many productions we did was known as Witness. It was a few ship in 1939 that traveled after Kristallnacht. By the way in which, right now is the eighty-fifth anniversary of Kristallnacht. In 1939, it traveled from Hamburg to Cuba with nine-hundred and one thing passengers on board. All of them have been Jews attempting to flee Germany and Nazis, they usually couldn’t. Cuba didn’t settle for them, no one settle for them. All of them ended up going again and plenty of them perished within the Holocaust, in fact. However the play was about that. It was set in a digital world. We created a digital model of the ship, and we partnered with the Holocaust Museum on this manufacturing. And we came upon that based on the archives within the Holocaust Museum, it was attention-grabbing what these folks did on this boat escaping Holocaust and escaping Nazism. And since a few of them have been already in focus camps, they’d expertise exhibits day by day.
Tjaša: Wow.
Igor: So there have been expertise exhibits in our manufacturing of individuals mainly saying their journals that survived by means of a expertise present quantity. However anyway, the purpose is on the finish there is a sound of Yom HaShoah, which is the commemoration of the Holocaust in Israel, and it is constructed up emotionally that ship turns into about right now, and it really could be very a lot about right now. I see on Zoom, as a result of I might see folks’s cameras, and I can see that when the sounds, folks begin getting up from their seat. I see a number of the previous women simply attempting to rise up and barely…
And that is what we began with, and this broke my coronary heart as a result of they do not see one another. They see the primary character. Generally they see themselves on the screens as a part of the present, however that is one thing digital that’s taking place proper now, they usually really feel prefer it’s so necessary that they arise. And in the end, it is about that. It is this digital connection that we created, and know-how lets me do this and lets me take away a number of the borders which might be put up by house and time. Ultimately, it seems that know-how, as a result of we’re breaking time and house, helps break Aristotle manner of theatre.
Tjaša: That is good. Inform us a little bit bit about what’s developing. What is going on to BAM, what is going on to be acting at Below the Radar?
Igor: Properly, I am tremendous enthusiastic about this manufacturing. It is known as Our Class, written by a Polish playwright in 2009, I imagine, his identify is Tadeusz Slobodzianek, and it is about ten classmates. It is partly impressed by, in the event you keep in mind, the Tadeusz Kantor’s Lifeless Class. It is about ten classmates that dwell in a small city in Poland known as Jedwabne. That is utterly based mostly on true occasions. Eight out of the ten characters have been really actual folks, and a few of them you could find on-line, there’s interviews with them. So classmates, it begins in round 1926, and by the point of the… This little city has about 3,200 folks dwelling in it. Half of them are Jews, half of them are Catholics. And throughout the German occupation, begins with Soviet occupation, then German occupation, then once more, Soviet occupation.
In the course of the German occupation, the residents of this village collect all of the Jews in a barn and burn it down. Among the folks escape, a number of the Jews escape, after which it tracks their lives. The Catholics and the Jews that had survived, tracks their lives to 2000s. It is a story of those classmates. It isn’t a black and white story, it is a completely different story. The rationale why it’s completely different, or one of many explanation why it is completely different, is that it was at all times really advised by the Catholics, by the Poles, that it was the Nazis that had accomplished this. In 2000, there was a e book that got here out with huge analysis by Yan Gross. He is Polish American, I believe he taught at Princeton, and he got here out with a e book known as Neighbors, based mostly on testimonies, and he dug up that it was really the Poles that did it, the Catholics. After which it stirred up big commotion in the way in which that Polish folks, type of, what their narrative is about what occurred.
Primarily based on this analysis, there was extra analysis accomplished, and it really was confirmed that the Nazis had nothing to do with it. That is the story, and I am actually trying ahead to it. Now we have a gorgeous workforce from everywhere in the world, together with Ukraine, Russia, America, Israel. Now we have our designer from Germany, his identify is Jan Pappelbaum, he is from Schönbrunn Theatre. Unimaginable, unimaginable designer. After we went on this journey to Poland to see this city and to do a little analysis there, and Jan got here additionally to do a little analysis in that place, and it was attention-grabbing. It was like a Jew, a Pole, and a German strolling round.
Tjaša: Oh boy. What sort of know-how are you utilizing? What are you bringing in for this manufacturing?
Igor: That is nonetheless being designed. That is a secret.
Tjaša: Okay, I really like that. That was certainly one of my questions. What’s your secret or what’s your secret obsession?
Igor: What’s my secret obsession? My secret obsession is folks, is people. It is attempting to determine them out and connecting with people, connecting these completely different worlds with completely different histories, completely different cultures, and attempting to see what’s widespread and what’s not.
Tjaša: You possibly can catch Our Class January twelfth by means of February 4 at BAM Fisher as a part of Below the Radar. Igor, thanks a lot. This was superb. Bye.
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